Saturday, January 13, 2007

The church of Snorri Sturluson?

We've all heard about Frosty Hardison, the guy in Federal Way, some dozen miles from Seattle, who objects to An Inconvienent Truth being shown in schools. The most curious thing - I mean, really, the whole "teach the controversy" and "my religion disagrees so it's a lie" lines are so old (not that they aren't still stupid and dangerous, just that they aren't at all new or interesting) - is this comment (as reported in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer :
"Condoms don't belong in school, and neither does Al Gore. He's not a schoolteacher," said Frosty Hardison, a parent of seven who also said that he believes the Earth is 14,000 years old.
I think we can pretty much sum up Frosty Hardison - except for one thing.

14,000 years old? Who the heck believes that? YEC types generally say 6,000, some a few more. But 14?

John over at archy takes that on, quite brilliantly:
The specific number 14,000 raised a few eyebrows over at PZ’s. Most of the young earth creationists we are familiar with choose six to ten thousand years as the age of the Earth. Where did fourteen come from? I have a suggestion.

Fourteen thousand years ago, the last ice age was in full retreat. Maybe Mr. Hardison dates the beginning of the world from the retreat of the ice. This would make sense if his bible is the Elder Edda of Snorri Sturluson. In the Eddic poem Voluspa, we learn that in the beginning the frost giant Ymir was formed in the gap between the realms of Niflheim and Muspelheim. The great cow Audumbla licked away the salty ice to create the first man, Buri. Later Buri and his sons killed Ymir and used his bones to create the Earth on which to live. At the end of time, the gods and giants will battle till each kills his counterpart. Then the Earth will be consumed by fire and sink into the sea, which is not a bad description of what we can expect from continued anthropomorphic climate change.

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At 11:58 PM, January 14, 2007 Anonymous Anonymous had this to say...

Federal Way is not in Seattle.

Get a MAP!

At 9:30 AM, January 15, 2007 Blogger The Ridger, FCD had this to say...

Gosh, I'm sorry. You're right. It's not.

At 7:01 PM, January 15, 2007 Anonymous Anonymous had this to say...

Hello all. Frosty E Hardison here. Yeah it’s really ME!

For those of you that have ever spoken to a reporter for and entire 45 minutes, only to have the most controversial things plucked out of the conversation to be published to sell papers? This is what you should expect. Now then...

On something as simple as faith? You either have it or you don’t.

On something as simple as having a testimony that Jesus Christ has taken an active part in your life? You either have one or you don’t. If you don’t have it, you walk around in life an empty shell – often times you don’t even know it. Once you are filled with HIM and the unconditional love that He is? You KNOW what it was to be empty and you want to help others discover the truth too.

On something as simple as the age of the earth? I can do the math, the lineage provided in Matthew 1:1-17 and Luke 3:23-38 that give the genealogy of Jesus Christ (Matthew recorded Joseph's lineage, while Luke gave the family tree of Mary) places us at what right about 12,000 years today?

As far as science goes? Observational science and speculation of new ideas? Oh yeah, what we see is what we get. Or is it an optical illusion? I have no problems keeping an open mind for new ideas, perspectives and sources of information… the thing is, even under strict circumstances can we as fallible humans be mis-interpreting the data that is being read? As a data and systems analyst I have to ask that question all the time. Same goes for the carbon 14 factor. Where do the calculations come from that the world is several billions of years old when carbon 14 data is only good for a few thousand years? Then when you look at the methodology of HOW carbon 14 itself is produced you come into several variances to consider as well. Under what circumstances are there fewer occurrences of C14 being produced – what increases and what decreases it? Is it steady? Is it stable? What factors produce the absorption rates into tissues, fossils and specimens we are looking at? Do they differ or vary by diet, climate, solar variances? As a hobbyist in science myself, I at least still ask those questions.

I would rather have a human witness to cross examine than a machine of any kind – any day. Neither are infallible, but at least one of them can reason, think and extrapolate a conclusion weighing ALL the evidence rather than a preprogrammed set of line codes that can be out of calibration at any given time.

And if you want a spokes person for global warming – I would have chosen Ben Stein! Not AL Gore. Have a wonderful day.

At 2:56 PM, January 16, 2007 Blogger The Ridger, FCD had this to say...

You're right about C14. That's why nobody uses C14 to date the earth. As a hobbyist, you ask the questions; scientists answer them, but apparently you won't listen. If you're really prepared to find out, I suggest starting with Talk.Origins FAQ on the ages of the earth, where you'll discover the many ways used to date it, for instance: "The most direct means for calculating the Earth's age is a Pb/Pb isochron age, derived from samples of the Earth and meteorites. This involves measurement of three isotopes of lead (Pb-206, Pb-207, and either Pb-208 or Pb-204). A plot is constructed of Pb-206/Pb-204 versus Pb-207/Pb-204." Instead you rely on the circular reasoning of "the Bible is true because it's the Bible", and you ignore the fact that Luke actually says: "When He began His ministry, Jesus Himself was about thirty years of age, being, as was supposed, the son of Joseph, the son of Eli," so that you can rationalize away the discrepancies between the two.

Finally, yes, you either have FAITH or you don't. But in your case, your FAITH causes you to become willfully blind to the evidence of the world around us. Fine. But you can't put your FAITH in a SCIENCE class, Mr Hardison; that's against the law.

At 11:30 PM, January 16, 2007 Blogger John McKay had this to say...

We god-hating, liberal secularists can also read the Bible and do basic math. Neither of the two geneologies he mentions show anything close to the dates he claims for the Earth. In fact, neither of the geneologies mentions any years at all. Hardison's theology is as bankrupt as his science.

At 4:13 PM, January 19, 2007 Anonymous Anonymous had this to say...

Frosty Harrison, being the strong conservative you are, why don't you go pull that shaft out of your ass? You do nothing for this world. You complain against climate change and have sex all day. How many kids did you have again? Seven? It'd be a shame for them to die from lack of freshwater or respiratory problems exacerbated by climate change. But you'll never know because you're going to die a bitter old man within the next ten years.

Maybe that's why you don't care. but hey, think about the rest of us. The rest of the youth in the world and I would rather not live in an overpopulated, hot-as-hell world paying an arm and a leg for WATER. And you're doing nothing but making it worse. Go continue the carbon cycle (which has been going on since the Earth was created ... a LITTLE more than 14,000 years ago) and drop dead.

At 1:45 PM, January 26, 2007 Anonymous Anonymous had this to say...

Mr. Hardison, I pity you. In the Washington Post article, you claimed that this country is "the greatest nation ever to exist on this planet." Are you sure that you're living on the same planet as I am?

It frustrates me that people like you can be so ignorant. You know, the Romans thought their empire was the greatest, and that it would never end. It lasted almost 500 years. Our country hasn't even made it to half of that. We would be wise to learn from the past, instead of continously making the same mistakes. Some Americans should learn not to be so arrogant. I have news for you Mr. Hardison: the United States is a far cry from being the best nation to ever exist on this planet.

And if we want to talk about religion, Mr. Hardison, I think you seriously need to examine the state of your own soul. I doubt that God would be happy that you are trying to stop your children from learning the facts about global warming. I imagine that He does not appreciate the fact that we humans are destroying His beautiful creation. If this world is going to end soon, it's because people like you are destroying it. Try explaining that to your children.

I'm just a college student, Mr. Hardison, but I'm not blind. I should warn you that if you send your kids to college someday, they might end up as disillusioned with this nation as I am. Most colleges teach the truth, something your kids probably won't be able to deal with. I might suggest Liberty University, if you want them to continue along the path of ignorance.

However, I sincerely hope your children grow up to be wiser than you.

At 8:03 AM, October 24, 2007 Anonymous Anonymous had this to say...

The fundamentalist age of earth beliefs are so hilarious. They are so ignorant of the world around them that it is sad.

Have you ever been to Yellowstone National Park? How about Craters of the Moon National Monument in Idaho? It is a proven fact that both Yellowstone and Craters of the Moon were formed by the same 'hot spot' as the North American continent has slowly moved over the hot spot over millons of years and the hot spot moved across the Snake River plain from Craters of the Moon to Yellowstone.

Its the same with the Hawaiian Islands. The ocean floor is slowly moving over a 'hot spot' and is slowing making one island after another over millions of years, islands trailing off to the NW and the next new island underwater SE of the big island.

Pretty difficult for the Fundies to deny the clear and continuing evidence of the slow geologic processes stamping out their time markers such as these happening over the millenia.


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