Friday, April 04, 2008

Plural data

I know a lot people insist that the word "data" is plural. But even so, this (from Nova a couple of days ago) just sounds weird.

"We were expecting to receive all of the simulated data,"says Jean-Pierre Lebreton. "Unfortunately, we didn't receive very many of those data."

I think "very much of that data" is what most Americans would say. Do you agree? Or does "very many of those data" sound fine to you?

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5 Comments:

At 10:32 AM, April 04, 2008 Blogger Barry Leiba had this to say...

I think "data" is plural, but not countable. So I think we say "much data", not "many data". I'm willing to accept it the other way, but, yes, it sounds odd.

On countability: I would never say, "I have five data." I might say "five data items," or "five data points," but never just "five data." Or "I have a lot of data," or "I don't have much data."

And that reminds me of two things:

1. From a sticker on the back of an old portable radio, manufactured in China: "This unit require six pieces of size D battery."

2. In noting that "cannoli" is plural, I asked an Italian (native) friend whether one should properly order "un cannolo"[1]. He said no, one would never say that; one would say "un pezzo di cannoli" (a piece of cannoli).

[1] Better still, order two or three, and eliminate the problem that way. Yum.

 
At 11:54 AM, April 04, 2008 Blogger Wishydig had this to say...

It sounds weird to me.

But then so does "data are" or "data were" to my ear.

But how can it be non-countable noun if it's plural? Any other examples you can think of? In phrases like you suggest: "five data items"
"five data points"
"I have a lot of data"
"I don't have much data"
I see it as a mass noun like water.

Five water droplets
I have a lot of water
I don't have much water

But water isn't a plural there.

And that battery bit is great.

 
At 4:15 PM, April 04, 2008 Blogger The Ridger, FCD had this to say...

It's not really plural - it's mass. Or so I think.

Dr Lebreton gets a pass - he's French, his accent is adorable and relegates his word choice to the realm of foreigners' English - though I have to say that I wish I were that fluent in my foreign languages! - and he's a scientist.

 
At 9:10 AM, April 05, 2008 Blogger Barry Leiba had this to say...

Yes, it's a collective noun. But unlike most collective nouns, as wishydig points out, it's plural in form. We don't say "water are" or "sand are". We don't say, of our front lawns, "The grass are green."

Are there other examples of collective nouns that are plural in form? Hm. I'll have to think on that. It's not usual in English... but, then, "data" is still very much connected to its Latin roots, more so than most English words (the singular is still "datum", though it's seldom used).

And perhaps the collective nature of "data" and the fact that English normally puts collective nouns in singular form... argue for treating "data" as a singular form also, as many want to do. I wonder if we'll see that change over the next decade or two.

 
At 10:47 AM, April 05, 2008 Blogger The Ridger, FCD had this to say...

Well, that's just why I don't say "data are". I say "data is".

If you check a good dictionary, you'll see that it acknowledges this - MWU says: (1) data plural but often singular in construction : material serving as a basis for discussion, inference, or determination of policy <no general appraisal can be hazarded ... until more data is available -- Publishers' Weekly>

I would guess that people who say "data are" don't really think of it as collective.

 

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