Monday, March 31, 2008

The subjunctive mood - only the form is dead

Over at Mr. Verb's eponymous blog is a delightful finger-pointing at the egregious William Safire and one of his more annoying readers:
“Get this,” Sam Pakenham-Walsh, member of the Nitpickers League, said in an e-mail message, “we no longer use the subjective tense! Has all our education been for naught?”
Yeah. "Subjective tense". He said it, and Safire didn't catch it.

Read Mr. Verb for the low-down on "tense" and "subjective". I'm posting about something else that really gets me.

Even assuming he'd said "subjunctive mood", does Pakenham really think Ferraro (or anybody) doesn't understand the difference between irrealis and realis based on their failure to use the "proper" form of the verb "to be" (the only verb which has a special form for this mood, the only one) in the construction? Of course they understand the subjunctive; they just don't know which form of the verb they're "supposed" to use to mark it. That's why the IF is there. "If he was" = "were he" nowadays. Sheesh.

I am therefore delighted that he said "subjective tense" and that Safire missed it.

Let me add this - from Arnold Zwicky's Language Log post on the matter:
While I'm on the subject of subjunctives, let me express amazement, once again, that so many people are so exercised about the use of the ordinary past rather than a special counterfactual form (often called "the subjunctive" or "the past subjunctive") for expressing conditions contrary to fact. The special counterfactual form is incredibly marginal: it's distinct from the ordinary past for only one verb in the language, BE, and then only with 1st and 3rd person singular subjects, so it does hardly any work. And using the ordinary past rather than the special counterfactual form virtually never produces expressions that will be misunderstood in context. Yes, you can construct examples that are potentially ambiguous out of context, but in actual practice there's almost never a problem, as you can see from two facts:
one, all conditionals with past tense verb forms in them, for every single verb in the language other than BE, and for BE with 2nd person or plural subjects, are potentially ambiguous out of context, yet in actual practice, there's almost never a problem; and

two, the nit-pickers are, in my experience, flawless at determining when a was in a conditional is to be understood counterfactually (and so "should be" replaced by were) -- which means that they understood the speaker's or writer's intentions perfectly.
Indeed.

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7 Comments:

At 7:36 PM, March 31, 2008 Blogger Barry Leiba had this to say...

I'm not sure I'm sure, so just to be sure: Are you arguing for the elimination of the subjunctive mood alogether? Or is it only this oddly called "special counterfactual form" of the past tense that should be got rid of?

He who would command his brothers, I insist that he use the subjunctive for it. So be it!

 
At 7:38 PM, March 31, 2008 Blogger Barry Leiba had this to say...

Oh, and I meant to say that the pink text comes out pink in the feed also, which makes it look just delightful against Google Reader's white background.

On the other hand, it's a good device to make sure we click through to the real blog pages....

 
At 8:24 PM, March 31, 2008 Blogger The Ridger, FCD had this to say...

I'm not arguing we get rid of it - how could we? All I'm saying is that in the past the only time there's a different form for the subjunctive is with I and He/she/it. There is no special form in the present - it's just the bare form. So I suppose I'm saying we should just dump the "he were" requirement.

After all, English word order has already caused all other subjunctives to be introduced by "if" - you can't say "Caught he the barest sound, he would have attacked" like you can "were he a king, he would still not be happy". What's so awful about "if he had caught ..."? Nothing, apparently. So why not "If he was ..."?

I'm basically just saying that people do in fact know they're saying something counterfactual. And as Zwicky said, there's never any ambiguity: their critics always know it's the subjunctive.

As for the color, I tried to find something that worked against the blog background. I'm not sure any color would work on both.

 
At 10:03 AM, April 01, 2008 Blogger John B. had this to say...

"Subjective tense" is pretty funny. I guess the emailer's education was for naught.

 
At 10:32 AM, April 01, 2008 Blogger goofy had this to say...

The past form "was" still captures the counterfactual nature

present possible condition: If I am
past possible condition: If I was

present counterfactual condition: if I were/was
past counterfactual condition: if I had been

Writers have been using "if I was" and "if I were" in counterfactual clauses interchangeably for about 300 years.

 
At 3:01 PM, December 13, 2010 Anonymous Nick had this to say...

I still say "if I were" and "were he" so are you telling me I shouldn't say it that way because I'm wrong or being snobbish? I'm trying to figure this out since you say we should "dump" it.

Personally, the "were/was" usually separates the educated from the uneducated. That's my opinion. It's not a difficult rule to learn. Many people pluralize words by using apostrophe s (there are five cake's), but is that really a correct alternative because many people say it that way? I should think it is not so we shouldn't teach kids that it is an exception.

 
At 9:02 AM, December 15, 2010 Blogger The Ridger, FCD had this to say...

I'm not telling you not to use "were" if you want to. What I'm saying is that complaining that because others say "If I was king" they "don't know what the subjunctive is" is foolish if not insulting. If they didn't know they were using a subjunctive, they'd to think they were king.

I suppose I am saying that there's no particular reason to try to enforce 'if he were' as the subjunctive' since literally only that one form of that one verb is different in the subjunctive - all other verbs and the other forms of 'be' are identical in simple past and subjunctive.

 

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